Arduino Force Feedback Driver

[kbssa]

Hi !

I opened this thread, cuz I was posting at this viewtopic.php?f=39&t=317&start=30#p2486 and I do not want to mess up or "hijack" other threads !!!

I am doing a force feedback wheel and I am using an arduino to do the force feedback controller.

So If anyone could help me I would appreciate it !

Thanos, I really need to use the current sensor ??

If I do not use it what could happen ?

Thanks for replying !

Regards,

Bruno

[dearn]

Hi Bruno, why do you want to use a arduino for the ffb?

You can also "hack" a cheap ffb game wheel and use the internal board (and maybe potentiometer) and hook this up to a relais and power supply. You see it a lot with a Happ steering wheel for arcades. This wheel has a FFB motor and belt drive.

[tronicgr]

Have a look here to see how it can be done:

http://bffsimulation.com/BFF-FFB-System.php

It uses BLDC motors (3phase,24v) and all the calculations are done in software. Its a relatively slow FFB system (50Hz updates, or 20ms delay per loop).


I gave the above link just to get an idea what it takes. But there are other ways to make it equally good, all embedded.

Thanos

[kbssa]

Hi Bruno, why do you want to use a arduino for the ffb?

You can also "hack" a cheap ffb game wheel and use the internal board (and maybe potentiometer) and hook this up to a relais and power supply. You see it a lot with a Happ steering wheel for arcades. This wheel has a FFB motor and belt drive.

Hi dearn !

I want to use arduino, cuz it is easy to use, cheap and I have got some knowledge about it when I was doing other projects.

Here in my country is very difficult to find Happ steering wheel for arcades !

Thanks for replying !

[kbssa]

Have a look here to see how it can be done:

http://bffsimulation.com/BFF-FFB-System.php

It uses BLDC motors (3phase,24v) and all the calculations are done in software. Its a relatively slow FFB system (50Hz updates, or 20ms delay per loop).


I gave the above link just to get an idea what it takes. But there are other ways to make it equally good, all embedded.

Thanos

Thank you for the link Thanos !

I got some ideas, but I want to make it with brushed motors, here is very difficult to find BLDC motors and when you find it is very expensive.

So I intend to do with cheaper motors as brushed are, so anyone could do it too and with low cost !

If you can help me with arduino code I do the tests antil it be perfect !

I think I can make it without current sensor if I do some tests and limit the max motor's force by PWM, what do you think about it ??

Bruno

[sirnoname]

FFB is a mixture from direct commands out of the game. If a game developer see you are on a stone he can send a shake command for a sine wave and teh device will do it for x seconds. You are trying to use some telemetry effects (to head) for your wheel which is nearly the same but is missing the road structure. The USB interface of the arduino can be reprogrammed to a FFB joystick if you know how to program a FFB joystick USB interface which I think is not the case and which ends in too much work. A hacked board out of another wheel is better with more work from preoffessional programmers. If you use the fanatec porsche wheel electronic you can have both, FFB and a X-Sim control at the same time.

[IanH1960]

Have a look here to see how it can be done:

http://bffsimulation.com/BFF-FFB-System.php

It uses BLDC motors (3phase,24v) and all the calculations are done in software. Its a relatively slow FFB system (50Hz updates, or 20ms delay per loop).


I gave the above link just to get an idea what it takes. But there are other ways to make it equally good, all embedded.

Thanos

Hi Thanos,

..hope you are well.

Quick correction here - the force calculations are at 500Hz and are on-board the card. The PC software inserts flight "environment" data into the calcs at approx the same frame rate as the flight sim produces it - ie approx 50Hz.

Ian

[tronicgr]

Hi Ian,

I was thinking to contact you these days for more information about your 6DOF output of the BFF software. I had some people asking me about it since I expanded my control boards up to 6DOF a few weeks ago. But I found all the details for the data output format I needed in the manual.

It wasn't my intentions to offend you or anything. When I wrote my reply to this topic, I seen the 50hz update but didn't notice the 500hz internal loop of the microcontroller code. And since I know you do you like make all math PID calculations in PC software side, I didn't realize that it was the opposite. So that's cool.

In an analogy with x-sim software can output position data in 1000hz and my AMC644USB control board runs the PID calculation inside it in 5000hz, but still depends on how fast some games are able to refresh these position data. LFS (Live for speed) for example can do 1000hz it but FSX cannot do more that the max FPS rate you get depending on your computer power.

Regards,
Thanos

[IanH1960]

Hi Thanos,

...no problem, I thought it was most probably a simple oversight.

Yes the data rates available from the various sims can be an issue. On the motion and CL (FFB) software I use polynomial curve fitting to extraploate some of the sim parameters when the sample rate is faster than the sim rate - the ones that it would be helpful to have a bit faster. Atleast this gives some better smoothness to the data extrapolation where it is useful... But this depends also on the physical quantity the parameter represents, its basic suitability for extrapolation and the way the simulation calculations deal with it.

Let me know if you need any more info on the 6DOF formats - I can also add additional ones to suit your hardware if that was any use to you.... I've had a number of enquiries about suitable hardware to go with the software. The software was initially written for a professional builder who has his own servo drive hardware and I haven't found the time to look at that side of it myself.

best wishes,

Ian

[tronicgr]

Hi Ian,

I already know the delays involved in using network protocol to control AC servo drives and how fairly complex is their control (galil servos i.e.). My solution includes a whole different range of simpler to drive Variable Frequency Drives (inverters) that are also cheaper. These VFD drives only require analog voltage to set the speed of the motor and two digital inputs for the direction. Pretty much they behave as traditional h-bridges for dc motors.

So I came with a solution to use some specialized chips to extent the control signals capabilities for up to 6 of these VFD drives (for AC motors).
http://motionsim.blogspot.com/2012/11/new-addon-6dof-extension-board-for.html

I didn't face any problems so far with the 6DOF formats of your BFF software except that the binary format is limited to 8-bit values. 16-bit in binary format would be highly desired. Hexadecimal format takes time to transmit and adds more waiting times that affect the normal execution of the microcontroller code. Not that is much of a problem since serial communications are based on interrupt based triggering. Also higher serial speeds of 230400bps would be great (will try it since your software allows custom serial speeds).

Best Regards,
Thanos