DC motor_N-channel MOSFET's_H-bridge

Topics and questions about AMC, h-bridges, JRK's etc.

Re: DC motor_N-channel MOSFET's_H-bridge

Postby telfel » Tue 19. Feb 2013, 16:23

Hi Thanos

Do you have the schematics / designs for your high power h bridge.

I already have some h-bridges based in similar driver, the HIP4081AIPZ (a somewhat more expensive driver but its a full bridge driver). Was just trying to avoid using specialized chips like that if I can as they are more difficult to source. I'll give a try to my last design with optocouplers board in between and if that fails, I'll definitely have a closer look in designing a compact and cheap h-bridge for our needs here, that is if I can make it cost less than the pololu high power motor drivers...


I have some 24 volt 590 watt motors, i'm looking to power, not had much joy with the china h bridges, and was looking for something easier to assemble / repair.

regards Terry
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Re: DC motor_N-channel MOSFET's_H-bridge

Postby NeoTokyoNori » Fri 26. Apr 2013, 19:28

This topic seems to have been quiet for a long time,
and Speedy does not seem to be around...

but does anyone know how to go about creating EAGLE files for this board??
I would like to consider asking a pcb fab shop to make some...

Speedy has provided the layouts, but they are just images inside pdf files...

Thanks for your mighty brains :)
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Re: DC motor_N-channel MOSFET's_H-bridge

Postby vicpopo » Fri 26. Apr 2013, 20:05

Hi ,

Try to contact Prilad, he has got peharps an email adress.
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Re: DC motor_N-channel MOSFET's_H-bridge

Postby NeoTokyoNori » Sat 27. Apr 2013, 19:57

vicpopo wrote:Hi ,Try to contact Prilad, he has got peharps an email adress.


Thanks vic!
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Re: DC motor_N-channel MOSFET's_H-bridge

Postby speedy » Sun 23. Jun 2013, 06:14

Good day every one ...

sorry I'm tooooooo much late ... :lol:

what I missed ? :oops:

spe ;) edy
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Re: DC motor_N-channel MOSFET's_H-bridge

Postby vicpopo » Sun 23. Jun 2013, 17:04

Hi Speedy,

Again with us !

You are welcome , nice to see you ;)
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Re: DC motor_N-channel MOSFET's_H-bridge

Postby speedy » Mon 24. Jun 2013, 07:22

Thanks Vic ... nice to see you all ...
BTW , you made a very nice simulator indeed ... ;)

How is your H-bridge now ?
vicpopo wrote:I burned it with bigworm motor (12 V , 190 Watt)

Did you power the motor with a 12v battery ? or with a power supply ?

Actually ... I found that this is a key question for a cool operation for the h-bridge on any motor ...

a battery is much much better than a huge power supply even a small AH battery like the one in the motorcycles ... but comes the problem of recharging it.

So, I recommend to use a medium battery in parallel with a good power supply to power the motors and recharge the battery if needed ...

Let me say it on a very slow motion description :

When a motor first start on it's first turn ... it gets all Amps needed from the battery through the H-bridge which controlling the overall voltage ( not the Amps ) to give you the corresponding speed ... the power supply here is unable to deliver such a huge spike start up Amps ( the suffering condition ) ... the motor gives his first turn ... then comes the power supply's turn to give the H-bridge a steady 12v ... that is due to If the battery goes down to 11.9v then it is charging now ... and the motor continue to turn with the corresponding speed to average voltage applied across it's windings ... regarding that condition from the start point up with the speed until a full stop and reverse ...

On these first 30 or 40 turns of the motor on both directions ... obviously you will get a good powerful motion on the axis to be detected by the feedback sensor which will make the AMC aware that the motor is following up her commands and the error is not big to increase the duty cycle to make the motor moves faster ...

that's how we get a nice effectively good operation for the H-bridge and any motor .

( the suffering condition ) leak of start up Amps ... comes from that all of power supplies are Main Isolated Power Supplies that are using a chopper coil into there circuit to convert the utility power into the required 12v or what ever ... and even with the highest power supplies as we all know that coils prevents delivering such amps immediately ...
So, even if you're using a good combination of a small motor with a power supply that they are working together ... you will get a delayed action with a big error in the AMC and big duty cycle all the time ... bouncing motor ... heated H-bridge ... the H-bridge here is not the key ... the power source is the key .

I hope this is not the case you had ...

best regards
spe ;) edy
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Re: DC motor_N-channel MOSFET's_H-bridge

Postby vicpopo » Mon 24. Jun 2013, 18:50

Hi Speedy,

My h-bridge is out of order.
The only satisfaction I hadi s that I achieved using your h-bridge a few minutes .
All others (except pololu not tested) were burned.
The second satisfaction is that your h-bridge is the only one DIY which had worked for me.

The design should be different with the possibility to change Mofset .

Of course I used car battery for testing!! With in paralell the PSU.My first simulator with those DC bigworm and saberbooth and vm110 worked great with this configuration .I used a moto battery paralell with a 13,8 V 30 A PSU.Never had problem eventhough the peaks current consumption were 25A for each motor (50A total).
As I started the sim with AC motors I stoped testing h-bridge (too expensive).

My conclusion is that with these amazing DC motor it needed to have the ability to setup many parameters like:

Ramp up PWM , PWM frequencies like did with pololu or recently Ale's Software and Sirnoname with its Xpid software for arduino.

And now I worked with ac motors and inverters and Tronicgr Amcs , it's so confortable for me ...

Easy to setup , safe , less current sucked etc...

Regards ;)
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Re: DC motor_N-channel MOSFET's_H-bridge

Postby speedy » Wed 26. Jun 2013, 04:53

Hi Vic :
I totally agree with you that AC motors with inverters are monsters but expensive ...


vicpopo wrote:The second satisfaction is that your h-bridge is the only one DIY which had worked for me.

I wished that there is more in your satisfaction list ... :cry:
So, and to set a challenge spirit as you know me ... :lol: ... Against the AC motors ... with a promise to do my best .

Give me a satisfaction wish list of your expected DIY h-bridge ... Or ... what is the worst nightmare you faced into this one ?

vicpopo wrote:The design should be different with the possibility to change Mofset .


That's a good one ...
The design is a nightmare :x ... I know and thanks any way :lol: ... I promise to make it better as much as possible.

Cause:
What made it difficult to change MOSFETs is the excellent double layer board you've got ... Now, it's impossible to reach MOSFETs screws from the top layer 8 holes [screws heads are now hidden with the bottom layer ] without desoldering all MOSFETs and removing the copper disc to have access to the screw heads ...

Recommended:
For future making new one ... or for others are reading ... to make the top board and the bottom board separately on a single side copper board and solder them together in the jump points .

Solution especially for you my dear Vicpopo :
If you intend to burn more MOSFETs :lol: ... I guess you may do the desoldering all MOSFETs if you didn't ... replace the bad One ... try slicing the copper disk into triangles like the pizza with thin saw across the diameter ... make some scratch numbers on copper triangles before that to be reassembled easily any time in the future ... then but one 4 or 5 mm thickness rubber or plastic support insert disk under it's tipped center while assembling again to hold it's position under the fan's base pressure .

Now you can just unsolder only the bad MOSFET and place it back easily .
what do you think ? If that isn't OK .I'll think of something else to you .

vicpopo wrote:My conclusion is that with these amazing DC motor it needed to have the ability to setup many parameters like:
Ramp up PWM , PWM frequencies like did with pololu or recently Ale's Software and Sirnoname with its Xpid software for arduino.


it seems like H-bridges are coming back to service in simulators then ... especially with the stepper motors ... ;)


regards
spe ;) edy
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Re: DC motor_N-channel MOSFET's_H-bridge

Postby postsol » Sat 11. Jan 2014, 18:16

hi speedy

geart job you have done :-)

i wonder is it posible to use IRL1404ZPBF mosfet insted they can handle some more power

and i can not download your toplayer pcb.



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